Damien Walter, Mr wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him in the ass…is at it again. this time with the Hugos. Okay follow me Ptolemy. His in normal…mine in Italics. Lets play.
The only thing you need to do to fix the Hugos. Nothing.
Care to make a wager about that old boy?
I’ve already noted here that the motives of those people block voting on the Hugo awards have very little to do with those awards, and everything to do with pimping up the organiser’s profile in the eyes of their reactionary, right wing audience.
Ah we’re reactionary right wingers are we? Well that’s funny since everyone I know involved in it runs the gamut. Everything from a few ‘right wingers’ as you say, all the way over to a few more discerning and intelligent liberals. Though by liberal, I mean liberal in the classic sense. Not the close minded Liberal Progressive elitists. Which means they’re a hell of a lot more intelligent and a lot less condescending than you…but I digress.
The Hugo block vote is an act of immense selfishness. But is it actually a problem? We’re annoyed with those involved for creating such disruption, all for the sole purpose of puffing up their egos. But when you actually parse out what the consequences, do they pose an existential threat? The simple answer is no. Here’s why
Well, partially correct boyo, in that block voting isn’t a problem. Why? because it’s only a problem because we the actual readers took a look at this situation after Larry Correia brought it up and found we’d been duped. Bamboozled, hoodwinked, and cast as ‘right wing savages’ by your side. To be honest old boy it gets boring. By the way we weren’t TOLD what to to vote for in the Sad Puppies campaign they were simply suggestions.. Larry himself said and I quote..
“These are my suggested nominations. I am under no delusions that you guys do exactly what I suggest. (seriously, it is like herding cats!)”
They said an I quote Is it ‘selfish’ to put out our hard earned money so we can nominate works WE like to get it on the ballot? Let me repeat that. It’s SELFISH to spend MY money to buy a membership so that *I* can nominate the works *I** like? Damien? Before I continue this…might I suggest you go commit an impossible sexual act with a sex toy lubed with ghost pepper sauce? Actually that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.
Diversity in sci-fi is a genuine issue, and has been for many years. How important you believe that issue to be will largely depend on how important you believe sci-fi is. But even in very recent years if you asked people about diversity in SF, you would get a few very predictable response
Diversity is in fact an issue. How do I know this? Because I look at the pictures of past winners and all I see are old or middle aged white men; and some white women. Oh and the occasional token asian, black man or woman and what not. But by and large teh winners are as lilly white as you are boyo. So in point of fact..your elitist old guard in charge of this clusterfuck and yourself are the ones perpetuating the problem. How big an issue? not that big . Yep the responses are predictable. One side is like yeah yeah I don’t see the problem..I know tons of people writing [or reading] sci fi who are among the various palettes of the melatonin wheel. While your side screams that because more message fic isn’t winning promoting non binary genderism. and more writers being of the various palettes of the color wheel when in point of fact, AGAIN looking through past winners…need I go on?
Less than two years ago, sci-fi imprint Tor UK published a limited set of data on submissions made to their imprint by women. The data is interesting, but a high school math student could easily explain to you why it has little meaning in statistical terms. Nonetheless, it was widely hailed by the UK sci-fi community and many beyond as proof that diversity in SF was simply a non-issue. Women did not submit SF novels hence women were not shortlisted for awards. End. Of.
Yep the data is VERY interesting. Hmm lets read what was actually WRITTEN in that little hot link shall we? Julie Crisp Director of Tor UK
““The sad fact is, we can’t publish what we’re not submitted. Tor UK has an open submission policy – as a matter of curiosity we went through it recently to see what the ratio of male to female writers was and what areas they were writing in. The percentages supplied are from the five hundred submissions that we’ve been submitted since the end of January. It makes for some interesting reading. The facts are, out of 503 submissions – only 32% have been from female writers. (…) While I understand why people get so impassioned about wanting more female writers in genre, especially when it comes to science fiction, the picture just isn’t as clear cut as it seems. Accusing the publishers of being sexist, or lax in their attitude towards women writers is an easy out but it’s just not the case.”
And it only means nothing Damien because you don’t agree with it. Yes that’s right boys and girls. If you WANT more women and people of various tones on the melatonin wheel to be published in sci fi…guess what? They actually have to write shit and turn it the fuck in to a publisher for submission and possible acceptance! if they don’t? Well then I’m sorry to tell you the blindingly obvious answer but, the numbers won’t increase. Or they can self publish. Math and reality are really cold hearted bitches but there it is.
Change often hinges on the middle-ground of opinion. And until quite recently the middle ground of opinion regarding diversity in sci-fi was (a) what? why does this matter? (b) sci-fi is more of a boys thing (c) please stop talking about diversity your attempt to be heard is really annoying me. A growing number of people were starting to take the issue seriously, but still a very small minority.
Holy shit that last one is a winner! Yep it’s true because on this supposed “issue” of diversity..Most. People. Don’t. Give. A. Flying. Fuck. Why is that Damien? Could it POSSIBLY be that most of us don’t go out of our way to look and see what the gender or skintone of the author is. What we give a fuck about is the story and whether we might find it interesting and *gasp* entertaining. Which is why we read the ‘blurb’ not the goddamn author’s bio because by and large? We don’t give a good goddamn about whether the author is male, female, white, black, yellow or a genetically engineered purple kumquat?!
Naaaahhh that couldn’t possibly be it. Nope. Not. At. All. *snort*
Enter the Sad Puppies, stage far right. Who in 2015, after three years of trying, have finally made themselves well and truly known to pretty much all of sci-fi fandom. But their first effect was in 2014, when they first placed a handful of nominees on the Hugo award shortlist. That achievement galvanised Hugo voters to think very seriously about diversity, and return the most diverse roster of Hugo winners in the award’s history.
Hmmm enter the Sad Puppy Campaign…stage right. Why? Well lets be honest most of you are so far left I’m surprised they were actually able to get ON the goddamn stage from the lean. Yep they’re getting known by more and more of fandom. Why? Well not because of puppy campaigners but because of the assinine, childish, vitriolic, toddler like tantrum reactions of elitist idealogues such as yourself old boy. I love your idea of diverse. LOL I won’t post the images again because they’re in previous post but if you wanna see how “diverse” the hugos are…just go check out my last post.
Because this is what happens when extremists enter a discussion. They alienate the middle-ground, and it’s the middle-gound where the real power lies. 18 months ago the middle-ground were not behind the idea of diversity in SF, because they simply couldn’t see that it mattered. Today the whole of SF fandom is up in arms about diversity. Because when something comes under such sustained attack, you can no longer pretend it does not matter. So stunning has the anger been in support of diversity, that the Sad Puppies themselves have been backed into the rhetorical corner of claiming their slate is itself a blow for diversity – albeit on behalf of “underrepresented” old white dudes. Hurrah! Total and utter victory for diversity!
Ah yes…extremists for calling for entertaining story before message. Extremist for thinking that our opinions matter as much as yours do. Extremist for saying that sex, tribe, species of author doesn’t matter to us. No actually fandom is split asunder because of hacks like yourself. Spreading outright lies as one seriously stupid sleeping beauty cut and pasted an a character assassination piece on EW, penned from the poison ink well of elitism. LOL and you fail to mention what and who are on the Puppy slate…because it doesnt fit your narrative.
Lets see Best Novel…
Kevin J Anderson. Oh look printed by TOR! Seriously? why are you trying to submarine one of your own you retards?
Charles Gannon-genuinely nice guy. Don’t know nor care where he stands politically good stories.
Jim Butcher- are you people fucking serious? One of the most read authors out there right now? Jesus christ pull your heads out of your collective asses.
Monster Hunter Nemesis- Larry Correia International Lord Of Hate. Not really he just doesn’t tolerate you hysterical fools that gladly. He writes a damn good book. I own EVERYTHING he’s written to date. *Note..Larry write faster man..I want more MHI and wasn’t there talk of another one set in the Grimnoir universe?
** further note…Larry was the first and so far as I know the only one so far to remove his name. Why because he didn’t want this to just be about him. He wanted it to be about good stories. Which his are but..there it is
Line of Departure Marko Kloos. Hmm haven’t read this yet. Sorry Mark but you’re gonna have to wait til I finish the 4 books in the Newbury and Hobbes series. Just discovered them the other day. Yeah I know..late to the party on that one but better late than never. And one of the few diversions from my Scifi kick lately.
On second thought typing this out is just gonna take too damn long. Here go read the proposed Sad Puppy slate for yourselves. Notice there are any number of females on that list? I’m especially enamored of the stories told by the Fan Writer category nominees
SUGGESTION – if the Sad Puppies slate really is about diversity, maybe next year it can be organised by a more diverse group of people? I suggest the current organisers hand Sad Puppies over to K Tempest Bradford and Hal Duncan to prove its true diversity.
Wait you want the Puppy Campaign handed over to K Tempest in a Teacup, foaming at the mouth like a rabid animal ‘your all hatey mchaters that only read old white men and you’re racists if you don’t agree with me’ Bradford?
Excuse me just….a second…lost my breathe and fell out of my chair, I was laughing so hard.
Ah better, now where was I. Oh yeah you wanna turn the Puppy Campaign over to the TiaT? Yeaaahhh..more proof you folks are insane. Also dishonest…but I digress. Hmmm…never heard of Hal Duncan… I’ll look him up later before I tar him with the same brush as TiaT herself. By the way? The head of next years Campaign has already been chosen. A woman, and an immigrant to boot.
The Hugo awards do not need to be fixed. They are doing what awards are, in part, there to do. Providing an arena for the debates that in turn power change. Some rather loud, selfish men are shouting their half of the debate. Good. The mass of people who might otherwise have stood silent on the sidelines have been motivated to act against them. Let the Puppies shout and bellow as long and as loud as they like. The actual changes that will follow their actions are not likely to please them at all. Publishers aren’t racing out to buy more books with space rockets by right wing reactionaries. Quite the opposite. Readers aren’t being persuaded of the joys of old school sci-fi by having it rudely thrust in their faces. Quite the opposite. In contrast, the issue of diversity has this year been spot welded to the Hugo awards by the laser beams of focused outrage. And that’s no bad thing.
The Hugo rules are fine the way they are. Selfish? LOL same response to that as your ‘extremist’ statement Damien. Your problem, and the problem of the old guard…is that the voting pool is expanding..”and the more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers”. [think I remembered that quote right] . Meaning as the voting pool expands. As more people plunk down their $40 supporting memberships year after year in the drive to nominate what they like, and vote for their favorite novels…the less control the old guard, the elite, the gatekeepers have over the slates. And so now we have calls to change the rules so that only ATTENDING members can vote. Calls to No Vote simply because of who suggested them. Or what the writer’s politics may or may not be. *facepalm!*
Do you mental midgets not get that more money for the cons is a GOOD thing? Because it means you can do things like expand facilities, panels and guests? Do you not grok that more people reading the genre is a GOOD thing for the genre, the readership of which has slipped quite substantially over the last couple years? Sigh..no apparently not. because we have this bit of bantha poodoo from Moshe Feder editor at Tor books. [seriously? is he TRYING to piss off the people who provide the money for his salary?]
“[Larry Correia] continues to be deeply confused, like many SF&F consumers of the post-ghetto era, about the definition of “fan” [admittedly, a confusingly generic word; we probably should have gone with STFnist] and “fandom.”
Until he can understand that he wasn’t lied to when he was told that the Hugos represent all fandom’s imprimatur, because the worldcon community and historical fandom are synonymous, he’s never going to get why he’s wrong.
As long as he insists on acting like anyone who buys an SF book, or a comic, or who watches SF movies or TV, is a member of fandom, I’m never going to be able to take him seriously.
As I’ve said before, you can read all the native literature you want, but until you learn the language and come live on the reservation, you’ll never be a member of the tribe, especially if you refuse to respect the fact that they were here first.”
(Comment left about 7pm on 4/9 on his post made 4/8 at 6:27pm)”
Jesus Jumpin H Christ Pogo Sticking Across the Alps on an Inverted Cross, Batman! Really? That’s a really elitist snobbish attitude. Because I an others have spent untold thousands, 10’s of thousands, HUNDREDS of thousands..hell MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of our hard earned dollars, to buy science fiction and fantasy novels, comics, tie in merchandise galore. In some of our cases been going to cons since our teens, some of us not…and we’re not FANS? Seriously? Those of us who are the meat and drink, the bread and butter..of the very authors, artists etc of the industry which pays your obviously wholly unearned pay check? We’re not fans? We’re not Fen? Whoaa………Moshe I’ll make the same suggestion to you that I made to Damien up post.
If this continues..I predict that you all are going to be very unhappy in the near future. Much unhappier than your infantile screaming seems to indicate you are now.
Yes as a matter of fact I have faithfully reproduced the bile from Damien Walters word processor word for word. Here: